Jump to content

Welcome to Nightly.Net
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Before Watchmen


17 replies to this topic

#1
Tank

Tank

    retired

  • Members
  • 33,029 posts
Welp... They doing it. Check any comic news site....

How do we feel about it?

#2
Iceheart

Iceheart

    your argument is invalid

  • Reading Winner Rd 1
  • 19,209 posts
It might be worth reading, after it's compiled and my library has it...

But if Alan Moore isn't happy about it...

#3
Tank

Tank

    retired

  • Members
  • 33,029 posts
Here's the thing about Alan Moore... he's kind of a douche.

Watchmen deserves the hype it gets, and he truly did something post-modern and amazing, but it was 25 years ago and the quality of his work declined. If the Sex Pistols mad a new album tomorrow, we wouldn't take them seriously. Marlon Brando's last few films were terrible. George Lucas went creatively bankrupt.

Time is not kind to artists so for him to stand on his pedestal and refuse to even entertain the notion that other people could tell stories in that world because he hates DC over money issues seems kind of dickish to me.

ESPECIALLY because if there's one industry that thrives on reboots and sequels it's comics. It HAS to in order to survive-- name me one other form of entertainment that has been carrying on witht he same characters for 60+ years. This is why I always fight back against people who complain about reboots and retcons in comics. You cannot move forward with 60 years of continuity.

JMS was just quoted at saying Alan Moore's attitude is basically like saying no one but Seigal and Schuster should ever write Superman. Or that any Batman story not written by Bob Kane doesn't count.

Personally, would I mind seeing more comics with Rorshach or The Comedian? Maybe. I don't know. Watchmen delivers all you need, so it does seem like stunt-publishing to an extent. I don't know it would be any good... but Brian Azzarello writing Rorshach? That's worth taking a peek at at least. Just because Alan Moore (or me) can't see how else you could tell a story with these characters doesn't mean somebody else can't.
  • The Human Torch and Obsidian +1 this

#4
Darth Krawlie

Darth Krawlie

    trained in gorilla warfare

  • Supporters
  • 31,831 posts
I had the knee-jerk THIS IS GOING TO BE TERRIBLE I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY'RE DOING THIS when I first heard about it, but after thinking about it for more than 2 seconds, I'm right there with Tank. ESPECIALLY about Alan Moore being a douche. If there's anyone who needs to get over themselves more than Alan Moore, I don't know who it could be.
  • NumberSix and Obsidian +1 this

#5
Iceheart

Iceheart

    your argument is invalid

  • Reading Winner Rd 1
  • 19,209 posts
Has Moore seen the prequels work, or is he talking on general principal?

I agree about comics really needing to reboot or reinvent to stay fresh, but if he's unhappy because he's seen drafts or the finished product and it's nothing he wants to see his characters in or doing... I can understand being pissy about misuse of your creation. Sooo, if he's talking after being unhappy with the product, I can see it. If he's unhappy on general principal, he's being stupid.

#6
Ryn

Ryn

    Moonshadow

  • Supporter/Mods
  • 27,551 posts
It's something I thought should never happen, but then again, the characters and their world I'd like to see revisted. With some of the creators attached, I'm cautiously optimistic.

The CBR supplemental article about Mayfair's RPG material is some good icing on the cake. I forgot even owning them.

#7
Jason Solo

Jason Solo

    Gotta Get Down

  • Members
  • 28,392 posts
If anything was going to be done with the universe, prequels were the only way to go, imho. Sequels...no friggin point. Exploring the characters' pasts, potential.

#8
The Human Torch

The Human Torch

    zambingo / Robin in Alaska

  • Members
  • 33,331 posts
+1 Tank!

However I'm one of the geeks which noticed that JMS missed the boat on his analogy. JMS should have directly compared Moore's stance to his hypocritical use of legendary characters from literature in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

#9
ShadowDog

ShadowDog

    Supra-Awesome Badass PIE Pimp

  • Supporters
  • 40,247 posts
I vehemently agree with Tank and DK. Not only about Moore being a straight douche boat, but also about the decline of his work. His latest entry into the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen series made Harris' "Hannibal" not look like a departure from a series and was outright unreadable. **** Alan Moore.

If there's anyone who needs to get over themselves more than Alan Moore, I don't know who it could be.


*Slicks hair back* I'm ready for my closeup! :D
  • NumberSix +1 this

#10
jedigirl1

jedigirl1

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,493 posts
My immediate reaction was "Oh god no this is terrible", but with Darwyn Cooke and Amanda Conner... I may have to get a couple of them. I feel pretty conflicted about the whole thing.

#11
Jason Solo

Jason Solo

    Gotta Get Down

  • Members
  • 28,392 posts
But dude, Brian Azzarello. Not only is he a pretty good writer, he even has that same "old wizard, gonna cook your children and eat them" look that Alan Moore sports.

#12
R.CAllen

R.CAllen

    walking

  • Supporters
  • 3,798 posts
I don't really know what to think. I love all twelve issues of Watchmen and now there's going to be (hold on, counting...) thirty-four issues of Before Watchmen? No, wait, there's going to be an Epilogue Special so it'll be thirty five issues. And these will all be done by people who didn't write or draw those twelve issues I loved. So there's that.

I don't know. Maybe this will bring money into a comic store on the brink of closing down (only one? Hurm.) and then it won't have to close up shop so that could be kind of good maybe.

#13
NumberSix

NumberSix

    Time starts NOW.

  • Supporters
  • 29,208 posts
Despite the cries of despair coming from the copy of Absolute Watchmen on my shelf, I'm not 100% opposed to this, especially since I'm not required to buy any of it. I'm definitely not buying all of it, but I'm unsure about most of it. I'm not as in love with Darwyn Cooke's stuff as I'm supposed to be, so probably not those.

I'm sold on the two Azzarello projects, which is odd considering his writing used to grate on me, but it sounds like a good match.

Totally unsure about the rest. I'm not spending a dime on anything related to Avengers vs. X-Men Giant-Sized Important HyperMegaUltra-Crossover Event, so I'll have funds freed up if I do decide to take a chance.
  • Tank +1 this

#14
NumberSix

NumberSix

    Time starts NOW.

  • Supporters
  • 29,208 posts
--> Worst-case scenario as imagined by Ty Templeton...

:thumbsup:
  • The Human Torch, Iceheart and Ryn +1 this

#15
Ryn

Ryn

    Moonshadow

  • Supporter/Mods
  • 27,551 posts
Templeton is awesome fun. His "ACTUAL 'Before Watchmen'" is spot-on brilliance.
  • The Human Torch +1 this

#16
Obsidian

Obsidian

    Kill Humanity

  • Members
  • 7,281 posts
I have no opinion of this, other than to say that comic fans SAY they want new stuff, but when given it, they bitch that it's not the same as what came before. It's a no win scenario.
  • Tank +1 this

#17
Justus

Justus

    Member

  • Members
  • 12,406 posts

Here's the thing about Alan Moore... he's kind of a douche.

Watchmen deserves the hype it gets, and he truly did something post-modern and amazing, but it was 25 years ago and the quality of his work declined. If the Sex Pistols mad a new album tomorrow, we wouldn't take them seriously. Marlon Brando's last few films were terrible. George Lucas went creatively bankrupt.

Time is not kind to artists so for him to stand on his pedestal and refuse to even entertain the notion that other people could tell stories in that world because he hates DC over money issues seems kind of dickish to me.


Well, his ego was created by DC and fans kissing his ass, so he could not help but think he's God's gift to comicdom. Think of it: when everything from interviews, hardback collections, DC retrospectives, and even DVD supplements all praise his work--total media saturation--what else would he think about his talents & creation? Hell, this happened to Kirby and Byrne too--all for the same reasons, so it makes one wonder why DC did not hit the breaks on worshiping talent to the point where a monster is created.

ESPECIALLY because if there's one industry that thrives on reboots and sequels it's comics. It HAS to in order to survive-- name me one other form of entertainment that has been carrying on witht he same characters for 60+ years.


Soap operas, for one. Most established their form of continuity by keeping a good number of actors and their characters on for as long as possible--oft times for decades in the case of the longer lived soapers (even as BTS staff comes and goes). Then there's Star Trek--after the original series ended, Roddenberry, et al, thought about starting fresh with all new characters or a mix of the old and new (Phase Two and the animated series both saw early drafts with such changes), but they ended up keeping the original cast together for a (collecitve) 25 year run until the final TOS movie. TNG's creation does not count as it did not reboot or replace TOS which was still in production as films while TNG was running.

JMS was just quoted at saying Alan Moore's attitude is basically like saying no one but Seigal and Schuster should ever write Superman. Or that any Batman story not written by Bob Kane doesn't count.


JMS is off in his thinking...no surprise, there. The reason no one ever thought Kane (or anyone else) should be the only one writing Batman is due to understood concepts of time and the monthly format; Monthly comics were/are expected to go on and on--even when creators lose their job, retire or pass away. There were no hardline beginning/middle/end structures in place like a novel. Special projects like Watchmen are presented to the public like novels...or old-school movies (think Gone With the Wind). It is a stand-alone work for the ages that does not need another thought, sentence or image added. Its a complete story.

Those interested in piggybacking on the legacy of another's stand alone work have no trouble arguing in favor of soiling the finished tale with sequels/prequels/whatever, but from a creative standpoint, its not wise, and any involved should not cry about the inevitable blasting/comparisons striking like bullets.

#18
Stallion

Stallion

    Member

  • Admin
  • 22,888 posts

You cannot move forward with 60 years of continuity.


I agree with that to a degree, Battlech's series went through that, it kept changing and expanding it's story where it no longer was the orgional story. Sure some books covered the older time period, but the lore turned into something really hard for newcommers to follow because so many events happened. It's probably one of the reasons the series died out. I know it's not a comic book, but it's the same idea, having a story go on for two long will eventually lose it's main point as you keep changing it away from what it was to promote new storylines.



Reply to this topic