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Season 6, Episode 15: Across the Sea


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#76
Iceheart

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If that was the case then I doubt they would have bothered with Latin to begin with.


Dude, I thought you were joking. I guess not...


If that was the case then I doubt they would have bothered with Latin to begin with.


They started with Latin to show us what language they were really speaking, then switched to English so we wouldn't have to deal with stupid subtitles the entire episode. Or do you really think they were speaking English hundreds of years before it was invented? (I'm guessing on the timeline here of course)


That ^

They speak Latin, the brothers' birth mother's name is Claudia, and from the clothing everyone was wearing (particularly Claudia), they were clearly indicating that this happened in ancient times. Conclusion = Claudia and her people are Roman.

Note that the name of their biological mother was Claudia, who was the mother of Remus and Romulus,


Romulus and Remus' mother was Rhea Silvia.


1. Allison Janey is from The West Wing - she played CJ Craige, Press Secretary. Who ever asked earlier in the thread.


Thank you! But, I've never seen The West Wing... she must have been in movies I'm familiar with, or something.

2. Why did she thank MiB when he killed her? Was this a long con on her part? Did she actually choose MiB to be the protector of the island inadvertently? Did she know Jacob would hunt him down and throw him in the light because he couldnt kill him? Thus, she orchestrated the birth of Smokey? The islands security system?? Hmmm...


Ooh, I like this.

#77
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Just in case you didn't know, I have heard from a good source that this episode took place in the year 23 A.D.

#78
Foxglove

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I see your education is paying off, Iceheart. :lol:

#79
Iceheart

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If she can't be killed then she could just mow her way through however many people. While they try to stab her she can just be hacking away. :lol:


Wasn't the dagger MiB used to kill Mama the same used to kill Jacob? I wonder if it has special properties of some sort?

#80
Iceheart

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Just in case you didn't know, I have heard from a good source that this episode took place in the year 23 A.D.


Roman! :D

I see your education is paying off, Iceheart. :lol:


I payed a lot of money for that piece of paper! :lol:

#81
Lucas1138

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Paid ;)

I think there was precedent for extended use of subtitles in Ab Aeterno, which is what mainly made me question it. Not to mention the multiple times in the series we've seen people start off in one language and then go to english (Ilana and Richard both come to mind). I also still don't see what they accomplished by starting in Latin and then switching- aside from just conveying "look, these people are really old." :shrug:

And yeah, definitely the same dagger that we've seen before. Safe to say it holds serious significance at this point I would think. Dogen seemed to know what he was talking about when he asserted that the knife was necessary to kill MiB.

Speaking of, I don't think he was every actually given a name. I'm not sure it's being hidden from us- maybe he was just never given a name at all.

#82
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The actress who played the Mother was in Juno

Thats where I recognized her from

#83
Iceheart

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Paid ;)


I knew that looked wrong :lol:

I think there was precedent for extended use of subtitles in Ab Aeterno, which is what mainly made me question it. Not to mention the multiple times in the series we've seen people start off in one language and then go to english (Ilana and Richard both come to mind). I also still don't see what they accomplished by starting in Latin and then switching- aside from just conveying "look, these people are really old." :shrug:


I think it was setting the scene and the culture - if this was 23 AD, modern English was definitely not spoken yet. Plus, Latin is a dead language, while Spanish and Russian (and Korean) are not. You need a fluent writer to write lines for the modern languages, you need a scholar to do Latin properly.

Besides, like you pointed out earlier, Latin is the language of the Others. Perhaps because it is Jacob's native language? He is a leader/messiah figure to them. It was also used to bless the wine he drank when he became the Protector. Perhaps because it is sacred to the Island? Those are a few reasons to throw Latin in there.

#84
Iceheart

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The actress who played the Mother was in Juno

Thats where I recognized her from


I haven't seen that, either :lol:

#85
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I"m having the same dilemma you are- I recognized her from something, but it hasn't been anything mentioned lol.

#86
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I don't believe that there was an existing smoke monster in the cave. I think that is what no-name's soul turned into after being thrown in there. Also, after watching the episode a second time, last night, boy did it get dark in that cave when Smokey was born/created. Just saying. I never thought about the light still being there when Ben and Locke turned the Donkey Wheel.

That's what it has to be. Smokey has the same motivations and restrictions as the living MIB.

#87
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Note that the name of their biological mother was Claudia, who was the mother of Remus and Romulus,


Romulus and Remus' mother was Rhea Silvia.


Ah right. I should have said that Claudia was thought to be Rhea Silvia...

#88
Iceheart

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Ah right. I should have said that Claudia was thought to be Rhea Silvia...


Um...

Claudia was a Vestal Virgin as was thought to be Tarpeia, Tuccia, and Rhea Sylvia, who conceived Romulus and Remus.


"as was thought to be", not "and was thought to be". In other words, that Claudia was a Vestal Virgin, and supposedly so were these other mythological women.

Claudia couldn't have been Rhea Silvia if her father was a Roman Senator. There was no Rome or Senate before Romulus and Remus.

#89
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Ah right. I should have said that Claudia was thought to be Rhea Silvia...


Um...

Claudia was a Vestal Virgin as was thought to be Tarpeia, Tuccia, and Rhea Sylvia, who conceived Romulus and Remus.


"as was thought to be", not "and was thought to be". In other words, that Claudia was a Vestal Virgin, and supposedly so were these other mythological women.

Claudia couldn't have been Rhea Silvia if her father was a Roman Senator. There was no Rome or Senate before Romulus and Remus.


Gotcha. I had actually read the connection elsewhere. It's on Lostpedia. The Internet is wrong! That'll teach me to read more carefully, and not jump to conclusions. Oh well. Perhaps the Vestal Virgin connection is enough to justify my interpretation.

#90
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Underwhelmed. Disappointed. Frustrated. Those three words sum up how I feel about this episode. To me, the episode only opened up bigger mysteries (and in an unacceptable way) than the few questions that it resolved. How come Jacob and MIB can't hurt each other? Because momma said so? Lame. And it looks to me like Jacob did end up hurting his brother, if we take his tossing him into the cave of light to be the act that killed him. Yes, the show established some motive behind MIB, but it's flimsy, wish-washy motive at best.

#91
Iceheart

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Perhaps the Vestal Virgin connection is enough to justify my interpretation.


No matter who their mother is, you're definitely right to draw parallels to the story of Romulus and Remus, there are very obvious similarities, even if it doesn't line up 100% :)

#92
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I think I've figured out what was missing. They didn't have enough story for 43 minutes. It was like they commited themselves to an all flashback all Jacob and Brother episode even though they really only had about 25-30 minutes of story. So they had to fill it out. Which made it drag. Imagine if they'd hit all the story beats they hit last night but in just 25 minutes. That would have been mind blowing. But there were too many conversations that were too close close to each other. Yeah, we get it Smokey, you want to leave, we don't need to hear it again.

I think that was the problem I had with this episode. They either needed to intercut with something else or add another layer or something.

#93
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The more I think about it, the more I love this episode.

We are totally visiting the Cave of Wonders again. I'm certain of it. The "light" is the essence of the Island: the electromagnetism, the healing property, the flux capacitor. This has to be where Desmond is meant to go. The electromagnetism produced by Widmore's coils looked identical to the light in the cave.

This is where it all started, and this is where it'll end.

#94
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fI'm not quite understanding all the hate or lack of interest, lol! I really rather enjoyed the episode and felt it explained the motives really quite well, as well as giving the Adam and Eve payoff. Not that it wasn't without flaws - the birth scene for a start! And yes, it raised more questions, and I know Lost is nearly over, but I've kinda come to expect more questions along with the answers and it doesn't feel like Lost without that!

Am I right in thinking that the wheel we saw in the episode is the one that they turn to move the island, but in a different position? I wondered if when Mother filled in the entrance, it fell.

However, I do feel it was building up to something and the final episodes will make this one feel more worthwhile


The actress who played the Mother was in Juno

Thats where I recognized her from


I haven't seen that, either :lol:


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#95
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Who was she in that?

EDIT: IMDb Page

#96
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Am I right in thinking that the wheel we saw in the episode is the one that they turn to move the island, but in a different position? I wondered if when Mother filled in the entrance, it fell.


Yeah, it's the same one. Clearly, Smokey appeared to people through the ages and had them redig it out and fully install the wheel or make a new wheel if Big Momma burned the other one.

#97
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Been meaning to tell you all a story-

On one of my last night's in Rome we were out, and had been out for a few hours (read: were all really drunk). We were walking from one place to another and I was walking towards a guy going the opposite direction who had a black shirt on with a symbol on the front. As I got closer I saw that it was a DHARMA logo for the Lamp post. In my less than sober state of mind all I could think to do was look at the guy and go "... LOST!" *point at shirt* "LOST! ME PIACE LOST!" We shared a moment, then just as quick as it happened, it was over with.

#98
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Yeah I think that wheel was the one that they used. Obviously he got other people to go and dig out the collapsed well and installed it properly

Drunken Lost stories are good. My friend got a Desmond Dharma Jumpsuit for his brithday and went round shouting 'Brother' all night.

#99
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Two things:

1. They could have been speaking Latin the entire time but for the actors and the audience’s sake, we got English after the fact was established.
2. I didn’t like the cutting back and forth in the ending. It was too much of a wink at the audience which is smart enough to come to the conclusion that his mother and brother are “Adam & Eve.” It’s like the equivalent of the scene from Brokeback Mountain where Anne Hathaway’s character is explaining what happened to Jack over the phone to Ennis and then you actually see what did happen. Earlier on in the movie, Ennis has a monologue that foreshadows Jack’s demise and I thought seeing it was condescending to me and the audience.

I enjoyed the episode but I feel like this was a set up to the final 3.5 hours remaining and that finale is going to be jumping all over the place.

#100
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And Allison Janney was also in American Beauty and Hairspray.